How to Advance in Your Career as an Introverted Professional

Matthew Pollard: Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Introverts Edge podcast, and I’m ecstatic to welcome our next guest. She is a career coach that served many years at PwC. For those people that don’t know what that stands for, PricewaterhouseCoopers. And she has made really a career out of advising other people on how to promote themselves inside organizations. So if you’re listening to this and you are a career professional, and even if you’re in lower levels of management and you want to all you aspire to get one of those top jobs, we’re going to be talking about how to do that as an introvert.

We’re going to be touching on things like personal branding and also making sure that you become visible without sounding braggy at all, because that’s the key, really. We don’t want to sound braggy in anything that we do, because that doesn’t feel comfortable for us as an introvert. But without further ado, I want to welcome to the show. Natalia, welcome and thank you for joining us.

Nital Phull: Thank you so much for having me here, Matthew.

Creating a Successful Career as an Introvert

Matthew Pollard: Oh, I’m ecstatic to have you. And, you know, I think that when I was researching you, all the topics you talk about, some of them feel kind of strange for career professionals to consider, because I especially for those people that have done the traditional, you know, go and get a degree, go and get a job, I think if they just work hard, people will recognize it.

And look, I know the world starting to realize that that isn’t the way things happen, but getting it known, making sure you’re visible and making sure that people actually understand the value that you provide tends to be something that’s not really taught. And I love the fact that you’re teaching it. So I’d love to stop by just really cutting to the crux of things.

There’s introverts listening all the time to this show that I like. You know, I love the ideas. I love the strategies, but there is no way I’m going to be self-promotional in any way, shape or form. It just feels braggy. How would you suggest that a career professional that wants to let an organization, the stakeholders they lead to know the impact that they’re providing in a way that shows effective communication?

How do you how would you suggest they do that without coming across as braggy and kind of self-indulgent in a way but that still helps with career goals?

Nital Phull: Such a pertinent question right now, Matthew, I have a lot of people like talking to me about this exact problem. So the first thing I would stress is that it’s not bragging. So people who are thinking that they are bragging, just remember that if you have had successes and you’ve had achievements and you’re really good at what you do, then you’re not bragging.

What you’re doing is just sharing the value that you’re able to bring, that you can bring, and that you want to bring to others. And when you think of it like that, it just really changes your mindset. You’re sort of reframing how you’re thinking about talking about yourself and and what you’ve done in a way that actually is giving value back to other people.

And for people who are extra humble, it’s not easy to do. I definitely know this because I’m I’ve been exactly the same. There’s so many years of my career that I just put my head down, and I just worked really hard and just hope to myself that I get recognized. But as you can imagine, that was not the case at all.

But what I started to realize over time is I can’t compare myself to the extroverts out there, because that’s what I started to do. I started to look around and think, oh, this person is becoming successful, and they’re doing this and they’re speaking up here and they’re challenging this person. But what I was doing was just comparing myself to someone who was completely different to me, just wired in a different way.

And you can imagine what happened. It just didn’t work for me. But once I really dug into my introversion and really started to figure out how to use my introverted qualities to my advantage. So things like active listening, reflection, focus, being creative that worked wonders for myself and my career. And that’s what I really want to help others do.

Like in terms of coming to that realization that they can use their introversion to help them, but just by leaning into it a little bit rather than running away from it. And you talked about, you know, how can they do it in a way that’s not bragging. So if they do come across as if they’re thinking that they’re coming across as bragging, I would say just stick to cold, hard facts.

Just give really concrete examples about value that you’re adding to the organization your client, your team, anyone. And when you do that, it just becomes a lot more easier. The second thing I’d say is if you have a team actually talk about what they’re doing and raise their profile, because what you’re doing is just by raising their profile, you’re actually raising yours because you’re also responsible for the outcomes that they’re getting.

And another thing I’d say, and this is sort of a hidden gem way of getting yourself visible and getting yourself noticed by others. And a lot of people probably wouldn’t think of it like, this is just to ask for feedback. So normally people would think if I ask for feedback, I’m going to get my negative parts of my career highlighted to me things I need to improve, but actually that’s not the case.

You’re getting that person to acknowledge the things that you’ve done well, as well as areas that you need to improve you. So you bring that to the forefront of that mind. And there are so many other sort of strategies out there. Like I always recommend for people to just get your name on it. So what I mean by that is if there’s an idea or a presentation of report and you have significantly contributed to it, just make sure your name is included on it.

Ask for it to be included, because people are going to start noticing that. And then the other thing you can do is just diversify your work portfolio. So just work with different people in the organization, work on different projects if you can, if you have the ability to and just give yourself more chances to showcase yourself to others.

So some strategies might work for some and they may not work for others. But the main thing is just to figure out what you want to get what works for you in your organization. and then really try to just hone in on focusing on those 2 or 3 things that actually make you a bit more visible.

Career Minded Introverts – Seek Support!

Matthew Pollard: That’s great advice. I’m really glad you shared that. I think that a lot of people, though, as this thinking through this, a lot of them probably feel like they’re doing it alone. And I know that you talk frequently about finding resources and support systems with inside corporations, and a lot of people think that they don’t exist, but they do.

It’s just most of them are tapped into. Would you like would you mind just sharing, like some of the resources for introverted leaders and professionals that you found that were helpful for you during your career?

Nital Phull: Absolutely. And I obviously worked for an organization that really invested a lot in their people. But you will find that there’s a lot of training and development out there. So if you just speak to H.R., we’ll just speak to other people around you or your manager. You’ll find that there there are courses out there, leadership programs, etc., that just help you become just a lot more confident in yourself to be able to get yourself be more visible.

And then the other thing I’d say is mentorship programs. So a mentor is someone who’s going to advise, guide and support you throughout whatever work you’re doing. And it’s a little bit informal, but I’m started to see a lot of in mentorship programs are also across company, and it’s such a fantastic way of just getting more opportunities to speak to more people and just expanding your circle in that way.

And then the third one, which I would say is a one of the biggest untapped assets, is just getting yourself a sponsor. And the sponsor is someone who really actively supports your career progression. So what they do is they open doors for you. They say your name in rooms that you’re not in there, share your contribution and impact with others as well.

And they really help to make sure that when you’re not around that you are visible, that people know exactly what you’re bringing to the table.

Matthew Pollard: Yeah, that’s that’s great. And for the people that have read my book, you know, I call them, champions because you need to have champions within a workplace. However, a lot of people feel that getting those champions to listen to them, to give them the time of day is difficult. And I know that in your mind, it actually is as well.

You have to really start by figuring out who you are. Spend considerable time reflecting. And, you know, I see this having ties with so many career minded introverts. They they say, I wish that I had a mentor, I wish that I had somebody supporting me. And they said, well, what do you think that they should be telling people about? And the answer is, well, everything about me, because I do everything and anything that somebody needs.

I’m really resourceful. I’m really hard working and there’s no nothing that somebody else wouldn’t share as well. So I know you talk about the requirement for personal branding to be visible and the necessity to do that before you start to look for stakeholders or for champions of your work, what would you suggest is the the minimum viable product or the minimum requirement for for branding to start looking for those champions?

And how would you suggest somebody goes about doing that?

Career Development through Personal Branding

Nital Phull: So in terms of building a personal brand, it’s not something that can be done in days. It’s not something that can actually be done in months. It does take a little bit of time and it’s something that’s going to be long term. Once you have it. And for those of you who want to, you know, your listeners out there who actually are looking to build their personal brand, what I would suggest is there’s three sort of steps to building their personal brand, and one is around defining it.

So it’s about thinking, how do you come across to others? How are you perceived by others? So what are people saying about you when you’re not there? Because that’s exactly what a personal brand is. What’s that? What’s that now? And what do you want it to be in the future? So once you start to do that, you know, I’d suggest to people it’s just coming up with 5 or 6 different adjectives to actually describe, you know, what they where they want to go and where they are now.

And then the next step is about developing. So this is about developing an action plan and order to get there. And this is about coming up with simple actions to help you achieve that brand. And what I would suggest is if we think about an example, Matthew. So if we think that someone started their career in the fairly early on, like 5 or 6 years down the line, and then known to be a perfectionist and known to be very reliable, they spend the time to cross the T’s, dot the I’s, just make sure that everything is done to a high quality and then known for that.

And it’s great and is fantastic and people recommend their work to others, and people are talking about how great they are, but they also know that to get to the next level, they just can’t be a perfectionist. They have to move towards becoming more, let’s say, outcome orientated and in order to become more outcome orientated, they need to think about making sure that every task that they do, evaluating it based on is it achieving that outcome or is it actually taking them away from, is it distracting them from it?

And then is about purging their To-Do list to think, okay, let’s remove things that are distracting me from it. Let’s see if I can delegate things. And then the next part of that personal branding is to evaluate it. Because a personal brand is how you’re perceived by others. The best way is to just make sure that you are getting feedback on it, because there are always going to be new people to your organization, and there’s different ways you’re going to come across to different teams and different leaders, senior leaders.

And the best way is to ask people how you’re coming across.

Big Networking Events, One on One Meetings, or Both?

Matthew Pollard: I think that’s great advice. I think the trouble a lot of people have is actually getting that in front of people. And if they’re sitting at their in a in a cubicle or especially now in our less connected world where we’re all in a lot of times virtually having small talk and connecting with people, that makes it much, much harder for them to get that brand in front of people.

And so obviously, I’m a big fan of networking, and I believe that if we’re not networking where our businesses are dying or so are our careers, right? Because, you know, I feel like the only time people network, especially if they’re introverted, is when they’ve just lost their job. And now, out of desperation, the networking. It’s the same with small businesses.

When they lose a customer, they’re like, oh, now I need to go and find one. And so I’d love for you to share from and I mean, you worked with, as you said, a very supportive organization, but you’re still a big believer on the importance of networking for those people that are listening, that are trying to avoid networking at all costs.

Can you help me understand or help them understand the importance of continuous networking, not isolated, stressful networking? how important network security, so to speak, is for a career and what you would suggest that they would do to continue networking even while they feel like they’re in a safe, cushy job?

Nital Phull: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, before I go into this, Matthew, I actually just refer back to I was watching the Arnold Schwarzenegger documentary on Netflix a few weeks ago, and one of the things he said in one of the episodes, which really resonated with me, was that people tell him he’s a self-made man. But he said, I’m not a self-made man because I’ve had so much help along the way.

And I think this comes back to what we’re talking about previously, about having a sponsor, having a mentor, but also that networking gives you the support that you need in order to do what you need to do. So I think just people who struggle with networking, just remember that, that even someone who’s excelled in three very different areas in life, whether it’s bodybuilding, acting or politics, he said he couldn’t do it alone.

And we shouldn’t have to do it all alone either. When we don’t have to. So networking is absolutely crucial. Yeah. Opens up opportunities to you. It helps you grow and actually makes you work go further as well. Because let’s say you’ve already built up your network and you’ve worked on a project that needs more exposure. It’s easier for you to get it out there, and it’s easier for you to make that project a success.

So for those, you know, you talked about the moving away from stressful networking, going towards more continuous and just happy networking and meaningful connections, meaningful relationships. So if people are thinking of networking, as, you know, simply networking events, what I would say is, you know, two suggestions. Be very, very selective, especially as an introvert. The last thing you want to do is just waste your time and energy on an event that’s not tailored to your industry, your area of expertise, or your audience.

So be very selective on how you do that and use your time wisely. And then the second thing I’d say is it all comes down to preparing, preparing, preparing. And what I mean by that is prepare what questions you’re going to ask, who you want to speak to, what icebreaker questions could you, you know, could you talk about just to get the conversation warmed up and then, most importantly, how can you exit the conversation when it’s not going where you want to go or you know, you’ve exhausted it?

So think about those things. But networking does not just have to be just big events. So networking can happen anywhere can happen in the left. It can happen in the cafe. It can happen just at your desk as well. So for that, just think about what type of people you want to be connected with and just take small steps like especially in this, you know, remote world.

Take small steps to connect with them on LinkedIn. Send them a message, talk to them about what work they’re doing. There’s so many little steps you can take that are not scary, but can still move you closer to where you want to go, which is just building a genuine, trusted connection. And introverts, as you know, and just absolutely fantastic at making trusted connections because they focus on the quality rather than the quantity.

Matthew Pollard: Absolutely. I think that’s great advice.

Nital’s Introverted Career Path

Matthew Pollard: I also think that people listening to you are going to have trouble believing that you’re an introvert, right? Because you very clearly articulate you have a series of steps. And while of course people are probably at home or driving to work listening to this may seem to themselves, well, she probably put a lot of planning and preparation into this.

Let’s kind of break down those some of those barriers. Because you did lead a large team. You were involved in a large organization that doesn’t pick their leaders anything, but carefully. They they’re very, very precise about hiring the right person for the job. And that can make sometimes things harder, sometimes things easier. But I would I would much I would really like to understand your personal introverted journey.

Like was there a specific time that you discovered that you were introverted? Introverted? Did you always feel introverted? Do you have any struggles facing up? And I kind of. How did you break through those?

Nital Phull: Yes, I had long struggle, so even before I joined Professional Services, I found myself, you know, I started in finance and I found myself sort of moving into different areas, different teams that were related to finance. But I knew that actually I always wanted to be out there more. I wanted to be speaking to more people in the organization.

So I started to choose my roles wisely, and I started to make moves to in order to get me more exposure, even though like it wasn’t something that came natural to me, like in one of my jobs, I had to make a lot of phone calls, and I’m sure other introverts can resonate with me when I say sometimes making phone calls is very, very tiresome.

So I made those careful decisions. But it did take it a lot out of me. But it was when I became a manager in one of my first roles that I, as she started to think about what it meant to be an introvert, because I really thought that one of my strengths was that I could really tailor myself and my personality to different people, and I think part of that came from just being very empathetic and, you know, trying to focus on what the other person was feeling or maybe what I was feeling.

And then someone pointed out to me that actually, despite doing that, especially with one team, they’ll start to question, like, you know, what side of you they’re getting because they see you being different people with different people, different sides. Sorry to different people, but actually once I started to think about what it meant to be an introvert and how I could make sure that I felt proud of my introversion, that’s where my journey started to change.

Matthew Pollard: That’s really powerful, I think, because I do know, growing up, I met many introverted people that in a lot of ways they were chameleons. They they kind of leverage the energy of the people in the room. They try to fit into every group. And I’d see sometimes really quiet people that I knew to be quite reserved and relaxed in, in their general demeanor.

All of a sudden their voice would go up and they would start talking in this high octane, high energy kind of behavior just because they thought that that’s what it was expected of them. And I can imagine they would have gone home absolutely exhausted. And probably, if they’re anything like me, really ruminate on, why did I say that?

Why did I do that? Because it wasn’t them being the natural, the natural, authentic self. And so I think that’s advice that really people should listen to, you know, in a very, very thoughtful way that if you’re out there trying to pretend that you’re someone that you’re not, or sharing different sides of yourself rather than you full side, you know, you full self, you really need to take a step back and say, how do I want to show up in this world?

And how do I want people to perceive me? Because when we’re thinking about personal brand, we’re not building a personal brand to show everybody a side of ourselves that we think they’ll like, because then it won’t feel authentic, and we don’t want our champions to see that side and only that side of us, because they’ll see it as one dimensional and they will not support you.

And then you’ll feel like no one gives you a shot. And when truth is, you didn’t actually give them a shot yourself. And so I’m really glad you shared that I, I wanted to quickly segue to to one last question, and this is become my favorite question to ask, because I thought there were only going to be a few answers to this, and it turns out that everybody seems to believe that they have a different introvert edge.

And this topic is really important to me because so many organizations feel that the introverts can’t excel, and most introverts feel like there’s a stigma around introverts. And you said yourself before this interview, is that a lot of people feel like introversion is a negative thing, and that’s terrible. So I really want to lean in to the introverts edge, and I’d love to know what you consider your introverts edge to be.

How Nital’s Introvert Edge Supports Her Career Goals

Nital Phull: Yeah. Great question. So my introvert edge is that it makes me my introversion makes me a more effective problem solver. So let me explain to you how I get the. So we all know that introverts are more sensitive to the external environment, because what’s happening around them can really impact their internal energy. And that’s why we talk about protecting it often.

But what it’s done for me is that it’s just made me tune into other people around me more, made me more empathetic and more aware of their problems, their pain points, and their challenges. And then that leads on to finding out more about the root cause behind those challenges and then finding better, more effective and more sustainable solutions for their problems.

Matthew Pollard: That’s terrific. Have you found that that edge comes with an Achilles heel of people expect you to be able to do that on the fly, and are you able to do that on the fly, or do you need to find yourself or get people to give you, give you the space you need to be able to lean into that strength?

Nital Phull: I actually listened to one of your previous, podcasts, Matthew and the gentleman said that his introverts edge is that he can do parallel processing, and I thought to myself, actually, that’s not my edge at all. On the opposite, I do need, a bit of time to process my thoughts, my ideas, and I come away. So after I come away from, let’s say, a big workshop, a big meet, or even a 1 to 1, I do my best thinking in solitude.

But once I, I once I found that owl. It just gave me a lot more confidence to ask for that space. So I’m able to get it and make sure that I come back with a better solution for people.

Matthew Pollard: That’s terrific. What about for those people that feel like they’re getting asked for a solution on the fly, that people that share that edge with you, but they’re in a meeting and their manager is saying, you know, you guys, John, get have great solutions that you come to after the meeting. I’d love for you to share your view right now so that we can move forward with your best idea.

Like, what do you what do you do in those situations, or have you been able to figure out a way to get people to not do that?

Nital Phull: So if they are not able to ask for that space and they’re not able to, you know, get that space that they need, I would normally respond by actually asking questions to that person, because what you do when you ask question is that you still giving sort of ideas because you’re you’re explaining to them your thought process and where you’re going, but you’re not coming up with that solution just yet.

You’re digging a little bit deeper. And then in that way, actually, often, sometimes you have come to the solution because you’ve asked the right questions along the way. Whereas previously you would have gone away and come back with those questions. So either it’s getting the space or doing the questions, I wouldn’t recommend that they should just come up with any sort of solution on the fly, because that’s not going to help them in any shape or form.

Matthew Pollard: I think that’s great advice. And for us introverts that feel forced into doing that, you’re going to regret answering the question on the fly that night and you’re going to ruminate over that. So that’s the last thing you want to do. I mean, I am constantly saying to managers that they need to send an agenda in advance. And I’ve said to many, many introverts, like if they’re always getting asked questions on the fly, ask for an agenda or an advance, and if there’s any specific input that they’re looking for from you.

But I love the idea of asking questions because firstly, that’s really leaning into, again, like you said, an introvert ability to empathize and actively listen, but it’s also giving you that time so that your brain relax is a little bit in silos. We talk about the objection handling cushion when somebody gives you an objection. This a thing that you say to give your brain time to kind of get out of that spasm of what am I going to say and allow you the opportunity to breathe.

And I think what you’ve just really articulated is that they have that you’re providing a cushion through questioning to actually allow people to get some space back in there, but also doing what they probably would have done in reflection later, instead of asking questions of themselves to look at it at every angle, they’re actually asking questions of the person to ask them to look at it from all those angles as well.

I think that’s that’s really, really powerful. And for those people that are listening to this and this happens to them a lot, just try it. I know that it will feel uncomfortable at the for the first time, but I might I really would stress that this is something that will probably prove itself almost right away when you’re asked the question, if you can’t get an agenda, start asking questions.

And my bet is you will find that the answers come to you and you know what you what you’re hearing is to tell. That is exactly what worked for her. So you you’re buying into a proven process. It’s all thank you so much for giving so much value to our audience. For those people that have never heard of you before and have and have really got value out of this, out of this episode, where would you suggest people find out more information about you?

Nital Phull: So I post on LinkedIn so you can find out a lot more like tips, tricks and ideas insight around this topic. But also you can contact me via my website which is Natalia me so you can direct message me on LinkedIn or contact me. Find my website.

Matthew Pollard: That’s terrific. And for those people that are driving right now or, you know, commuting, don’t worry all of those links will be in the show notes. But for today, thank you so much for listening to us share what we consider is necessary guidance for us introverts that perhaps in a lot of ways feel disenfranchised or the fact that we can’t succeed.

So thank you for tuning in and we greatly look forward to seeing you in the next episode of the Introverts Edge podcast. In the meantime, check us out on your favorite social media platforms. Thanks everyone! Cheers!